A Break in the Action
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A Break in the Action
A conversation with British shooting instructor, Keith Coyle.
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My guest today is internationally known shooting instructor Keith Coyle. Keith is the last living direct coaching descendant of Britain's great Robert Churchill and as instructed both royalty and internationally successful shooters. If this doesn’t mean anything to you - let me just say that it is a BIG DEAL. Robert Churchill is known as the father of instinctive shooting. Keith describes The Churchill Method as being about economy of movement and elegant efficient gun mounting. Based on our natural ability to point, the Churchill Method requires perfect gun fit and when executed properly is devastating on your target.
Keith has spent the last 25 plus years as a course designer, shoot captain and shooting coach. He was formally recognized by some of the most prestigious gun makers of Europe, the UK, and the United States including Krieghoff, Caesar Guerini, Fausti and Grulla. Keith also currently supervises the green acres British shooting school and serves as their shoot captain for their British style shooting events. It was my pleasure to chat with him about his journey to becoming a modern day legend in his own right.
Welcome to a break in the action podcast here. We'll take a break from the tactical and spend our time on the traditional the break Actron double barreled shotgun. Join US each week for discussion and interviews centered around vintage and modern shotguns, outdoor pursuits and sporting literature. So sit back and relax as we take a break in the action. Here's your host shotgun collector when shooter and sporting clays, enthusiasm. Ryan Dowdy.
Speaker 2:My guest today is internationally known shooting instructor Keith Coil. Keith is the last living direct coaching descendant of Britain's great Robert Churchill and as instructed both royalty and internationally successful shooters. Keith has spent the last 25 plus years as a course designer, shoot captain and shooting coach. He was formally recognized by some of the most prestigious gun makers of Europe, the UK, and the United States. bes
Speaker 3:Thanks very much. Well I know I've been looking forward to catching up with you for some time and uh, I have to say at the moment on really great cause I'm sitting in my comfy chair, I've got my feet up and I've got a pint of beer in my hand as well as um, um, did. I just decided we were just, there was a private group, British children's shoes to uh, we had fabulous weather, uh, with the weather gods.[inaudible] I'm very pleased to say, appear to be despite this very, uh, uh, British weather in Illinois time gene from mum minute to the other. It's just been great. Great Group for guns. The birds is read this in the right direction. You can, uh, of course, uh, the, the food is the most important on the shoot these days is the, is the, is the shooting and everyone's going to my, um, yeah, pretty happy niche. But um, we through we further not just not literally threw them out. We'll be encouraged the last out the door, right?
Speaker 4:Yep.
Speaker 3:20 minutes. You guys have a great day. Thank you.
Speaker 4:So, I mean, I think a great place to get started is to hear about your background. Obviously, you know, you, you're not, uh, you're not from the states. I think we can gather that from your, uh, from your accent. So I mean, how did you get started shooting? You know, what brought you to the u s
Speaker 3:well, I think the most important thing is that John[inaudible] was originally a townie. Um, I was born in north London. We spelled up the two S I was born in[inaudible] 53, but it shows you all done by the course. At that time I was, you know, London is still pretty, pretty much recovering from the second world war. As a kid. We used to go and play cowboys and Indians and what could the bone sites, you know, the places where they hadn't rebuilt by the point. And then what happened? Uh, we really encouraged at that time, my parents were encouraged to move what we call the green foods, uh, away from London and he was pregnant. So we moved out into the country. Um, and so I started to get involved with the country, but my real first involvement with shooting was 1980. Um, I just come out in a minute too. They've done some 10 years service with the ministry. Um, I was actually starting my own business, uh, had a little bit of spare cash and a friend of mine just said, hey, just want to come and shoot test with trainees. And I said, yeah. So that was the, he took me off to a local, what we call[inaudible]. He used to be years ago, the old done twice, twice a fortnight carb went where, um, walked in there and I said, okay, before I did this, not going to make a fall. Is there a coach? And it was a coach is so booked team went off, did it now. And that was obviously my first client.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I started off in 1980. Um, I was a sporting clothes, you know, shooter, uh, the great thing because it was a big old clubs, you know, most of these cubs, we ruin the country. So it draws you into the country side. You know, it was just brilliant. Um, short more and more became a competitive place shot. Um, and then purely by accident, uh, the club, I was going to the little top, uh, the chapter was the coach. He was taking her one Saturday. I turned out from the ground are in the city, had a heart attack, can you cover? Uh, and I went, oh, well, we, okay. So I really took over. I took some, I started doing essence and I'd had taught, obviously I've talked to skills in the army. Um, I also, uh, for learning paradigm that time I was a student of Kendo, Japanese fencing. So I used to teach him about Jojo. Um, so I really, the the first lesson that was hooked, I'm telling you, he enjoyed it, so tired, don't you, you know, teach him shooting. And then really it really did get fed and serious. I was really enjoying that. And also I could do this. I'm ready to do this to the rest of my life. And I thought, well, I'm taking people's money. So I felt like con itself properly qualified and that's what I did. I went on to the clay, has insurance association. I've booked on my, uh, what was the first level we call it, the club coach course, uh, that we did. I realize that again, that was going to completely shift my life in another direction. Um, I go onto the course and the first man who I really meet is Mr. Verge Silcox who was very senior at Cpsi stuff to, to, uh, and he had, he'd built the CPSI contained system under his mentor, the chap called Chris cut up. Anyway, long story short, I do this great week, uh, well, you know, I'm legit, sort of use these red for dummies. So within every time he wants to pick on somebody that demonstrate I'm not doing it, he called me out. Um, and then we really did. And there were moments in the court, which were my blues brothers moment, you know, but he says something on the shelf, the night comes through, you could launch, right. And again, uh, we got to the end of the week and someone said, well, what do you wants to see you? And I think right now it's a normally in trouble. So I go off, but still come in, come in. And in the conversation he said, look, he said, I would like to offer you the opportunity to come and work with me at the roses would shooting grounds, which was in a lovely part of the West country, could Somerset. He said, come up with my shit. He said, man, we do not to be my project. After I managed to get my jaw off the floor, you know, managed to mumble the word. Yes, that was it. Um, it was a big upheaval in a sense for that because some of the set was on the west side of the country. Uh, I, uh, my lovely wife Brenda and our kids, but we were living on the typical, the east side of London convict the opposite side of England, uh, in Essex. So it was about a four hour, three and a half, four hour journey for me to go back with him forward. Um, but that's why I did that for the next, well three and a half years full time. Uh, I went to work and was taught by Roger and he taught me to be a coach. Um, at 38 years old, I became the oldest two junior in the world because my job is to guide. Aye. Aye. Aye. I haven't arrived late Monday night or midnight, you know, on the Monday night, one o'clock in the morning, Tuesday, uh, six o'clock. It would be my job to come out on the, on the shoot and score area of course. So I would pick up all the trainings, you know, the on button, he's filling machines, change batteries, clean up, get the Cup house ready so that all he had to do was physically walk in the door and start teaching. And I remember literally for the first three months I did this and I lived, I was wonderful. Farm House. I had my own section of the farm house and I lived with him and nor rain. Um, I don't want, I did for the first few months was button for him, didn't do anything else apart from being a Kim. But during the day with these lessons, I just something for him, I just stood there and listened and they never won a game. You would involve me to ask me questions. And Luckily enough, we get to the end of the day, let me that part of the drop and he'd say, have you got your gun here? Yes. And I had, and we'd go off and spend an hour with me too. We went back for suffer and uh, yeah. So I did. And then I was going backwards and forwards. I'd finished that. And unite and jumped in the car and get home to have almost about eight or nine o'clock at night that we render the kids. At that time I was still running my own small shoot on a Sunday. So going, I'd be up at six o'clock. Lucky enough, it was just down the road. I'd run mind it was sporting club, um, to about two o'clock. Then she'd get home about three o'clock Sunday afternoon, we'd sit down to dinner, spend some time with the kids from Brenda. I'm there Monday and going, I'd take the keys school Monday night after dinner, put the kids to bed, apostate, jumped in the car and put him on his back down. Somerset.
Speaker 2:No, I mean you shot, you shot obviously in Britain and you shout in the u s is the game the same and move was the game that you were playing then? Was it the same as what you're seeing in the states now? Cause it, it came to Britain first, right? Am I right on that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it really started in, in the very light. Um, it was, it was purely why Thomas and until the a game sheets, which was only down or stop pursuing the rich, um, I saw it and shoot it because it was shooting for trying to quite shooting live game plays. If we, if we show the holiday time in crying three first there's a two right when the coast is the time that most of the incoming probably that study comes in and drops. So third is it started and then obviously after the, the Sycamore war, it picked up again. Um, it really, really bashed off. But the brass in England in the very late sixties, early seventies, that's been sporting clothes really exploded. But it was all what I call pretty much straw by times. You know, he, he goes with the top of be on the phone, we'd have to run the every other week and so on and another, there were a few, well I've a called professional shooting grounds. It was the heart of it was really, you know, all of my strides going out, meeting on a Saturday, we got another top of the Sundae. So that important, cause you've got it coming onto it now. I, middle of the seeds, sporting clays came to the US in 1992 and it was actually Chris Credit who at that time was the director, the CPSI that was invited over by the fledgling Nsei. No one sees, Chris told me because obviously I broke with Chris went along just man when Chris came over and obviously we all know, we always said at the time the, once you spoke to coffee in America, the American element would become the most predominant because first you had the, the, the ability hydro, this huge people, number of people that would take it up. And we knew you had, you had best facility. So eventually, so it's progressed now there are, there is no, I do believe this. It is a difference in more I've experienced too in the lesson and the home and the via this tool to set a sporting clay courts. They'll be the first thing always when Chris and margin and all of his learning I'd set my own comes up as well because obviously I was a competition place future. Um, good sporting kinds. Obviously you should have a variety of target presentations. Um, you know from all different angles and I should be, there should be a rhythm if you get a report pass. While I would say to people that there was always a rhythm to it, you know, then we didn't coverage good shooting. He not discouraged a good Shanghai that you should shoot caused and it should be developing your technique, not forcing your, the sacrifice technique just to break target. Right. So for me one of the things that I've always done is when you get to shooting cage or stained, he's, the officer was told that were the report pair. You should, this should be able to shoot both targets within that. If you don't like window that picture window and you shouldn't have to move your feet. If I could show both targets with my feet in the same position if I had to, if you have to move your feet because the angle on the second target is that extreme. Others tell that's fit task shot cause there's, as you know, you shouldn't fit tests from the hood and you could, if you could move, you can move around. That's what it's asked was about. And the final that I was always told, good target, you should have a rhythm to it and good sporting pairs, uh, report pairs particularly should always have at some point on their flight path, a converging point, whether it's clothes, whether it's far away, those targets gets pause, should always somewhere converged your cross now because obviously you get report pairs, a folding pair of courses, the same, uh, two birds on same flight path where the cost of the most common explanation is you keep your finger on the button. So of course you get one too. Um, what it's called a true pair here, we would always call the simultaneous that and that's the pair. Literally just, you know, throwing side by side, some Italian. Um, a lot of that came about because in my day we only have manual tracks. Um, and I says, man, you, which apps with Dublon? So, um, we had, you had to crackers. So a lot of pounds started out. We need you really to this point in clinicals and if you add 10 stations, they were pretty much all the tiniest fares until all the checks came in prepared. So the only thing I would say, we've seen courses here, um, and I don't want to cause a thing because there was the it everybody does a great deal but there are some courses that I've experienced here that seem to what I called pander to the shoots and then almost to make it difficult, you know, I was told that a good sport and cool should entertain, um, should, might be challenged a little bit, but it should encourage good shooting technique. Those are the three main things. Firstly, it's a time for people to enjoy a beer, good big strip target that should, sometimes it's, it just set you a challenge occasionally but should encourage good technique. What I've seen here initially is that some of the cubs of thing, it tends to be a preponderance of targets that are being phone, being fun of white or retreating from the stain in some way, shape or angle. And I think that has a lot of influencing so many people who should track. Uh, so that there was it open that um, or sometimes I have seen it might be time for beer. Um, target targets are on the opposite end of the scale where they've got no common ground. Um, you know, there's no rhythm to it. Um,
Speaker 4:that'd be like a teal and a rabbit on the same station, just where they're just absolute opposites. Is that what you mean or,
Speaker 3:well, they do need to have, uh, align where you you, if I'm shooting into too, I'll put it this way. If I'm shooting a rabbit, say right to left or do they go on the top of my mommy, excuse my alumni. If I'm hitting the rabbit at some point, well I, shit, why should shoot that rabbit? No, that point to be the place where I pick up the two, but like, okay, I'm going right to left and I'll come up, we'll shoot a rabbit in front of me and ideally maybe we'll shoot them out. It should be where I'm going to pick up the two target does or is it about, you know, the, the pickup point, you shoot that first bird to give you the perfect pickup point on the site off to pick up the second one. Now, in a sense, it's like you play Paul obviously, you know, he plays sneaker. Um, honestly, any people, it's like that. Remember you popped the raid, but the key is to get the one who back in the right place for the color. So that's what you're looking at me and shoot sporting clays. He wouldn't shoot the first one. So it gives you the optimum pickup point and that's where you get the rhythm. You know what I mean? That that's what you'll get in rhythm to your shelf and sell them. So in a sense that that to me should be what I call in this sport and kind, however, now night got, it's just the same as gold, you know, people get in the moment. We started getting professionalism into it. Um, know of course pushes the boundaries of the school. Um, it starts pushing the competitive level of the school. Um, and that, that has a massive time, you, that I'm local to the local ground to me and she called goes, uh, if the notebook coaching club and they've got no, they've been awarded the sporting world championships this year. I know. I have to decide. I really do jazzy cause it's brilliant place to show. Um, they all been noun though, putting on very, very two mounds, mountain targets. Um, and people go there because of that. But even so, I've seen the targets they sat and as much as they're demanding, they are the closest ones to what I've seen to having this traditional rhythm, uh, this target placement that that's important. But, but that's the difference as you say that we all interpret it slightly differently. I think the American Edelman has interpreted the some downs in, in the past have already inside you too. Barb would call more of the retreating target, the going the whites all good. But that's because in my humble opinion, you don't like shooting nation. Doesn't forget, try it was your big thing. Mm. Um, and of course type became popular because in my opinion, the marriage than you, you have a great tradition of shooting rifles. You know, you carry on the bridge. Never had were young Tom. We've ever carried along almost within printing more, but you don't see you. You're a great, should might be shooting nation sort of track was the, was the big thing because in all fairness it's the closest or rifle should it could get to shoot him a shotgun, donkeys, rifle. And then what changed everything was of course street scape started, funnily enough, it started becoming popular just in the late thirties. But what really made it popular of course was in the late forties after the second world war because who was the guys that were in the American air force or the air gunners? Don't forget, they had to show 500 ski targets every month to keep their gunnery certificate.
Speaker 2:Oh Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And that thing Kevin Sheehan the most, therefore she named them. We didn't get paid. We've never had never had sleep. Jews had it not been for the British, the French, the American air bases, the Rod and gun club.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:All the, all, all the Ed Sanders had 500 squeak targets every month to keep that air gunnery certificate cause it took them forward to them. Then you've got skeet, skeet. You're really great speeches and medicals. The door was kicked open when[inaudible] came in. A few too, but as we said, the Americans, the American, uh, shoots of would become the dominant forcing in sports clays. Um, I mean not at the great guns around them. And I was fortunate back in 2014 of course I was in Abu Dhabi at the time and I was reporting on the very first net out Shuba Gold Cup. Which Governor Mosley. I mean, look, you had gum, the malls, Antony maturizing great shots. I know, I do. I answered him. I Tracy as much, just Kevin's a great shot. I think one of the, the best American shoots is for sporting clothes that I've seen in action without doubt is Anthony Matarese. Finally, he's just brilliant. Um, now that stove where the sport is developing.
Speaker 2:So let's go back to, you're still over in the UK. What, what then led to, you know, you're eventually getting, are you in the states full time or are you in the state's part time now or,
Speaker 3:well, well, what happened? Um, uh, it, it goes back literally just to, um, I'd been in Abu Dhabi in the Middle East for five years. I got head hunted to go out to a debate to supervise the opening and then get the, uh, Alpha is ancient and club in Abu Dhabi up from nine in an open. Uh, I'd been head hunted for that because back in 1996 I then did the same thing for the very first year he taught in the Emirates, which was in Dubai, but Jebel Ali. Um, so I'd been out there. I've got drawn out there. I ended up being with that project for a year. Uh, and then went on to coach independently. I was consultant for various people. There was more of the student grounds that I was incorporating design and our research with 2014. Um, and to be only Springer and all that, but pretty much you need to get back to new Chi. And believe it or not, in 2013 I was commissioned to design the Shooting Club for the northern Kurdistan, northern Iraq town of all bill, which at that time was independent cut stone and it was been time like they've got the oil after the Iraqi war could have stolen the northern part. They go with the oil and gas seven independent and always approached by uh, the, the government there cause I wanted to say shooting up as um, the national scope to coast on. They loved it and I hunted and of course it was a a of life for them to get potentially into the Olympics from up anyway. So I designed the shooting and covering everything up. Never Debbie. Cause we were going to go to all it'll, but I'll have to say is it true, wonderful city. So I went there and two weeks before we do to find out. So that was that turn out that plan. Now I said to Brenda, enough's enough. Come on, come back to England and got back, started coaching, set the website up. I was working, I had a love for shooting down called Barbary shooting ground, just down the road from where we give them a real shot, which is a state in the western part of England. Lovely, lovely place. And then literally one day a member of Greenacres gone to Lipsyte lady and she said, uh, I need some help in my shoe. He can you help me?[inaudible] you know, we give him some advice. And then she said, oh, it's kind of like on three night I do British didn't shooting. I'm like, did I crunchy? I only knew of, I knew that[inaudible] is on the case doing that. Right. Are you sure? And she said, Oh, you say to spring it, like go onto the website. And I saw it that happy down oakey and he's sort of British get up. And I said, well, you know, an artist just drop the club or line. And I said, I was really interested that the next thing I know I'm, I'm in conversation retain. Um, he really, it was more about adults for Dan. He'd been telling them, there's obviously brought back some pretty slabs and tell them that of course, bring it. But he, he, he could see that the demand for British told, given shooting in America, it was on the increase and it was going to increase. And he said, what can we do chemical, we do it. And obviously you didn't know I'd been Fred. Well you've not got, it's not the values and things to work on. And I said to her, well, why, why don't you try summer nights? He'd given guidance Figgis thing in Ingram then also if they need. And he said, well, what's that? I said, well, it's a gym and Game Day, but we recreate the die with all the canopy of the day, but we use clients. Um, and he said, and I do cook tea. It's not doing the simulated days, just not doing, putting a few tracks on a hill and sign them to little bit more involved if you want to do it properly anyway, she'll dance as well. Would you come over memorial here? Would you, would you run to the rights and the lessons? Would you run up that sends him coach him? I said course. Yeah, brilliant. I know story shoot, Dang gets me over. We do the very first, to me it didn't die in America and this was in 2015. Um, and it, it was great. You know, we, we, we had a, I got a big paint wagon, let me put traps all over that it was very successful. We did the first down the day. It went very well then. And I was chatting and there was definitely, he could see the demand for British driven church. And I agree because even back in 2008 when I was running in the state and Scotland, you could see the number of American teams have gotten 3000 individuals who starting to uh, decrease because two things obviously it's very expensive. You got to ring them in shape. I think also the time part from the financial climate, which wasn't very good. I think the first real concerns about flying to Europe and the security situation that was going on. And he said, well look, you know, where you think, I said, why didn't you go? It was a great venue, great carb, could see the central. And we just took shook hands and say, right, let's get you back. Um, and that's what we do. But it took almost a year, cause I, I had, I came back on an o one visa and on the first type of British shooting, he started to be awarded that particular level, um, of, of visa, you have to prove international acclaim, blah, blah, blah. And you have to be publicized, author and so on. So anyway, long story, Short game, uh, we get the Oh one and I come back here, uh, in the February of 2016 and that was it. I just got stuck in redesign the sporting clays. Cool. Start redeveloping that. And we started with the Downton Guy, then we started developing the parachutes. Um, I'm regretfully overload the, that we do two types. We pulled it, you met come kind of sick, uh, which is where we do attach it in the morning and approached. The guys go off and you do the lovely up more cup hunting me off and then how the birds, but then we expanded it. We put in another tower, um, by the time I got back down and also put in a 60 foot down on the class course with a whole bank of wobbled trach on top for me. Um, then we created what we called the wall Vegan, which was another high, which was a grain wagon. And we're going, we put another top on that and I've put down a bank of four wood shops on that. Um, so we were doing all of this, um, so we could do the doubt and day. And then really we started to work on another town and then into another word than location. And we started to do, if you're like cow shoots, but with the British overnight, um, which of course was the food. It's a little bit the way we run the day to give you an idea of breakfast club
Speaker 2:through a day. I mean, what's, you know from the time somebody gets there and,
Speaker 3:okay, it's the great thing is, uh, we, we, we still have at nine that's all cause civilized, civilized time. Um, probably do we get everybody, you arrive at nine, uh, most important. Everybody comes in, we've got Dave had the fire going and what we do is you do breakfast and uh, we do variations on breakfast. You would get, some days you'll get what we call the four months, which is a very British sort of eggs. Bacon, sausage is leaked links what you called them and the, and the whole bit. This morning's breakfast by the way, was um, scrambled eggs on crispy toast with smoked salmon and a dual creme fresh laid over the top. A case that we start with that. Then what we do with, we do the brief of rehash deadly for most importantly, we draw pegs. Now I've got a lovely box, which a good friend of mine, not until maybe when I got here and a inside it are some forced cartridges and obviously we've got a number on the bottom. You opened the box and I said, right, okay, right Ryan, would you kick us off and pull the first page? Now what you might do is you might get the number of times so that your peg to stop from when we go out and shoot. And then what happens? Everybody draws a page because that's your pig to start from. Um, and very quickly, that's where the phrase luck of the draw comes from. Because if you draw a lucky pig, it means you get a good shoot in position at some point on, on the day.
Speaker 2:Are those pegs drawn for each shoot or do you draw the peg for the day and then you, you maybe rotate? I think I've seen or Yep.
Speaker 3:If you would peg five, you go out and you start, you got to take a pause and then on the next rotation of that child, we always moved to pegs to the right. You go to number seven and you've got to know him and then you'll be back on one. So the great thing is because, because we do talent shows here, the big differences is I have to pretty much hire the circle of the tower because the birds will fly pretty much either where the wind goes or you know they're not, they're not being, they have their choice where to go. So the most important thing here, join the pegs in rotation is to a game. Like on a British show, you should hopefully you'll get birds over every, over your head, every paid. But there's always going to be one point there. The birds may play fight over a certain area and for whatever reason you become the burp magnet on that drawing. So, so you picked the page. So what you do, you start something fine, go to seven to nine road site and then let me move on to what we call the second tower or your next tower. We're going to start in five tight. Now the big differences in England, we normally only had teams of eight or nine guns Maxima. And because the birds are driven at you by a team of beaches, obviously we set the guns in a line, you know, in, in a geographical area. We set the guns in the line, doesn't, you know, it can be curved or you know, but generally straight. So he bit repeat the buds and the game where we change drives, those comes with those. We moved to the, to the right here, uh, because we just keep it simple. Um, but believe it or not, when you, when you go to a British show, number one, believe it or not, we'll be on the right cause she's a pivotable. Why? Why do you find that the number one is on the right, not the left, which is sort of the normal way to do it. And I said, well, what you have to do is you have to remember the pages are not numbered for you and numbered for the going deeper in the basis she puts the beat is coming towards you. So if I had gone from the radio and I said to the guy, Cuba, I need more birds over page one. And then when he's left the pigs, we go right to left in England. But it's really for the, the going Cooper and the beaches because that's what they say. But here we always moved to, to the right and we go around and not to do today. So we dropped pigs. We get you on gun bus to die. You. What we do is we start with a simulated drive to warm the guns up. So we go up to our big tower, um, we get the guns on their pegs and never do a similar light to drive Clay's coming over your head. And that really is as close to a brief cloud diverge in the air. Um, how many boats were going to shoot? I said on that night, which ones are mine? I said this, I just turned the machine on. Um, so I mean, how many, how many shells are, are uh, you know, in a day or, well, when it was sending me this morning, how many shows do I need and assuming like you drive. And so we definitely need fifth that the type 50 with you. Um, so what we do, we do the assume drive, everybody's warmed up and they'll shoot in Staunton instinctively. Then the next thing we do is really dumped on the bus. We take him down to the first tower and then we replaced the guns, man, the tower, everything's set. And obviously then we, we put aside would we start to release the birds? And what we normally do is you're going, depending on the number of birds release, did they, we had, um, it was uh, a 300 bird release that was 150 birds released from each tower. And what we did is we did five rotations. So the good thing is if you start on number two, you ended up on number 10. So you, you shoot all the way round. And then what we did, uh, we finished that. And then we have 11 cities, which is if you like snacks in, in the field because by this time, believe it or not, even though you made breakfast, is trying to get a bit hungry. Um, so of course then we, we, we bring the food down. We have food in the field and it's more for his eye today just to give you, um, get your taste buds going. Brenda might, uh, pat and partridge sausage rolls. Let me hide many cheese and onion stuff, jacket potatoes, not schools that had that. Uh, but the big thing that space that's most is the bull shot broth. Now every estate in England has its own version of bull shot bra. Um, all I can say to you is because it's a secret ingredient review, but boost up off there with Brenda. It has a, it has a tomato. We sort of broke the ice, then you get some beef booty on their net and then several types of alcohol, um, without giving it a wine to it's brandy and Madeira. Um, and I, and a couple of that will keep you warm for a week. MMM. We do 11, Geez. Um, maybe them to, so it's about a half hour break. Um, everybody warms up and great chance to chat and talk about some of the great shots that they've had. Um, exchange stories. Um, and then what I did with them, put everybody on the gun bus and then we move to the second tower here, which is your virtue is Tristan's would that really, I know I'm biased, but it's a really lovely code. Tyson prison, one of our towers are concealed during the show. You can't see it. Okay. But this one, this one's just a religion, a stand of pine, which is then got like a clearing around that. But that is surrounded the back by pints to really, it's really nice and tight and the birds come out. I mean, we have birds today. Um, by the time they, they've got over the trees and they're coming over the guns, some of those birds were going hundred and 50 feet, you know, above the guns. Good. Really said sport passing shot. Um, and it was great. And the game, you go around the town, when we finished the day off, we were backed up here at the top house and I have to get it right. The kitchen sell me off if I don't. Um, but we've got back here about two 15 so everybody comes back, there's a glass of wine. We obviously take some trophy photographs and we touched the birds. Very important. You know, I get the guns out and the birds are laid out and we toast the boats. You know, you poked, you pay respect to those birds that have given all these guns graceful a case. And it's very traditional here. We come out, we touched the birds. Um, we can take policies in traffic. I do golf and then obviously we'd come back in the boats, go into the larder or to the cold room where the boys start cleaning, preparing the birds for the guns. And then the boys, we all came back. I mean today, just give you an idea on the menu. It was, um, it's five spice squash soup. Then we had followed by a traditional, uh, French farm house before the noon. Uh, we bought the call crunched crispy roasted potatoes and there was, believe it or not, a fraud, Brioche rocket and date salad, warm salad to go with it. And that, that was that. And then of course my, my job, it's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it. I have to match the wines tutor that you had to be out without the mines. There's a bunch to me. And I chose with the, um, when we had a wonderful, uh, California Ping own wall with a beef burger. Um, and then we had a chilled pull, Tony Paul and that was it. And then of course, really the guns mean, uh, then they wander outside. I mean the wine is free flowing and we went out and obviously the cigars man on the poor and uh, and we eventually elixir. I feel, I said, you know, you can't get these chaps out now. You know, cause you've got the postop. Um, and that's, yeah, and that's really the glory assessment of the dice. Some, it's a mixture of two thing. Join the countryside, the great spoke, the birds give you brilliant camaraderie. Um, I not been in the middle cause there's a little bit more banks. Again, it's a little bit more, um, getting about and it's like the fun, um, and it, and straight and everybody comes back. And, um, and that's truly, really fun. If I'm honest, that's the big distance between doing well I would call a British style driven shows. Uh, the American[inaudible] stripes, they, Kate, that's far more casual. Um, that's a great day. But the guys come back and they have lunch, they go off and shoot and come back. But yeah, it's really the whole experience
Speaker 4:from the breakfast all the way through the, you know, the, the port at the end. I mean, it's all those details. So, so one thing you didn't speak to is you, you guys, uh, encourage their, uh, proper attire. I think you, you, you call it on your, uh, on your, on the youtube video commercial or, you know, walk, walk me through what's, what's a guy, and I knew that you're not going to throw anybody out, but what's, what's the guy where from, from, you know, a head to toe?
Speaker 3:Well, two things. Firstly, because obviously it's quite, nobody means you can, but sometimes I get these comments just why do you guys were such goofy closing and I can understand that. Trust me, you know, because believe me, I didn't realize that real tree was a fashion statement. Not under stress. Yes, believe me, I do not sleep in tweed real chill. Um, but uh, two things. Firstly, the bright team about, uh, I'll quickly dove into, you have three member, we've trees the Cape. Remember it was the very first ever Windham waterproof clothing and thank you by the Scots where they lived, they paint then you tweet. Now the other thing that you have to remember is that uh, really it was only the British aristocracy that would go and shoot a driven going though the British never hunted and very quickly hopes I stress that to the British never hunted. Not like you are so fortunate here because we never had no free land. Remember that the land is always either owned by the king or the little wood. And if and if you have a hunting poaching, we go back to the closing now driven shooting. Trudy. Trudy was really made popular abide if you'd like, Queen Victoria and error because it was Queen Victoria for the British that really made Scotland right now, up until really the clean lectures, Scott Victoria went to Scotland, the Prince Albert. We did do driven shooting, but remember that Chap's war, so quite hat and they will will white, uh, for him, uh, transies bricks. The reason why you were breaks, if you, if I can know. So you guys a picture of George Washington member, he had the old white may houses and he could remember every gentleman wrote a hose. So when you rubbed a hole, she will ride him boats. So you age need trousers. So when the aristocracy then discovered tweets, keeping them warm, of course they made that into the same clothing that they would wear during the day, which remember is most gentlemen, he's trousers link just below his knee because he had to, he's writing, but it's fun. Yeah. So then that's why the clothing develop. That's why we had Greeks. Okay. And of course you see blokes pain in the old days, pain Gulf with festivals or prostitutes. That's the inches by the way, below the knee. So as, as this was a winter sport, tweet became petty. That was the thing. And it's an, it's like everything else, you know, you dress now for the occasion. Um, generally, you know, like today, I mean I wear, I'll wear obviously stick long socks. Uh, I've got for breaks. Um, it's a little bit of a fashion thing from the old days. You always wear your titles and your socks. I didn't choose to wear my wedding in boots today. I could have done because they would come up to my knee. So that's why they've worked with brakes on. I actually wore long ankle boots today. Um, so I'm ankle boots, fit socks. I had my briefs. Um, obviously invariably your check shirt and most importantly a tie if you went onto an English estate to show, um, we didn't, we, you weren't wearing a tie that no doubt the ship captain who can't. So, so you left that time. Would you like to borrow one of these tapes? Um, so that you always wear a tie because it's first, it's smart and it shows respect. Um, and then what I did, I had my, I had a sweater but you know, or shoot, jump run underneath. And then I had mine, you know, I'm a heavy tweed jacket, which is just so versatile. Um, flat cat, um, you know, sort of gender, you, you, you, you, you can wear most skin. Fels is, you know, they're brilliant, cold weather, you don't have to wear briefs, but the real critical factory shirt and tie, um, and that, that game and if fashion is changing, um, you know, you can get a tweet, um, cat now you know, you can get a Facebook style cat in tweet, I've got seven. So, but it's about keeping more of being practical, but at the same time just feeling a bit smart, you know, you, you, you might be off on the day and of course ladies fashion cause now you like really a lot of shit or shoot at time has become lifestyle again. I, I joke that obviously real tree is up. It's easy fashion style here, but at the same time, as you know, now, you know, you can get some lovely elegant ladies told him, which is lifestyle the tod, but it's still based on shooting. Um, and the same for the James. I mean, it cost me, you know, um, you know, you can, you can get her like a wipe or to curb three called the coat that you would wear the shoe, but it has got that, yeah, that looks nice. Style to remember. Always remember as well that I lifestyle posing. He's like, your car says more about you than cashier became popular thing. But remember it sometimes it's not goofy. It's just this is where it had its tradition. And as I said, you know, breaks every man, every gentleman no longer holds what breaks because he had him books. Um, and that's when you see that, you know, the old passion pictures, but just, I remember this, the Irish stuff proceeded that really used to go and shoot. So what they did is they got to bleed and applied it to their, their fashion clothing at the time. And that's, that's that. And we're not,
Speaker 4:I love it. I think it looks great. So we've gone over, we've gone over the day, we've gone over the, you know, what to eat, what you wear, uh, guns. I mean, I know there again, you're probably going to throw anybody out if they bring any particular kind of gun or not. But I mean, is it a, is it a double gun game? Is it
Speaker 3:two gentleman comes on the, they brought a pair of matching thirties between them. Um, which was not me today. I'll go with Saba size. Great friend of mine, Mark Kinkle, he's Mr. Fox and, and he's got these wonderful collection of boxes. Um, and, and again, there are some really, really not the guns come up. Um, I use, I'll, we've had chaps here we[inaudible] use recently, but the majority of the guns coming on and just your normal on a breadth of man. So people coming on with their breasts is that Brown is essentially green is over and up us over and under. A great supporter and great member and friend Joe Trade. He's got, believe it or not, a really wonderful pair of Ferrazi side by sides.
Speaker 4:Stunning. I mean our guys, you especially more on the, on the simulated days, like the Downton Day where it's, where it's all play to our guys bringing their, their sporting clays gun. Are they still trying to kind of bring their field gummy?
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no. The daughter still bring the field guns because remember in, in, in, uh, uh, obviously simulating, uh, the tip and birds right now, very quickly with the Downton Day, uh, when I try what I do and the way we'd done it, is there a full bird seasons in England? Uh, we start in August with driven grouse or you might know it's referred to as the glorious 12 total. Right now, the grouse, now you stand in it, which is normally argue a stone barn or wooden bar, which is dug into the age of the more so the grouts will come at your lung fast, you know, it's a set themselves. Um, and of course that's what the great church, we'll do that at the 26 inch outcome. It's on the site. But I mean, obviously we start with that and now you can shoot that with a 30 inch. Um, the[inaudible], uh, I've got guys shooting chomper science double gunning. It really is. You can bring the gun that you liked, you can have if you've got a lovely gun that you don't shoot normally and I cosigned by somebody. Do you bring it along? It's brilliant. We have a really great selection of guns. But to be honest, I've got chats come along here. Um, with, uh, just the standard, you know, good old basic Winchester or over and under and church just shifts just as well as all of a sudden people remember it's not the gun, it's the pilot, the counts. Um, but we do, we have people coming on and double gun. So we start with grouse then, then we'd go out to, in England. Um, partridge is September driven chunk up to the cartridge. Now they're what I call, hey choppers. They're coming over like the food hedges and just over the top of the trees. Um, and then October course we stopped present. So what we do is the second driver on the day is what we called a mixed bag. We were going up in height. So we go from the bell, starts to another location and this time the birds are going to be that bit higher. And I simulate given partridge driven chocolate with a few high flying pheasants phoneme. Uh, then we go to the third drive and now I'm assuming lighting presence in front of a call. November, December to now we're going up in height. So now I've gone up and then we go back to the 60 foot tower and the, and the targets are set. So by the time to come in over the guns, these standards and many targets, uh, it to a hundred feet that coming over here. Right? So that's it. Now we move to the fourth drive and by this time genuinely think your arms hanging off cause we had just gotten any show over founded coach. Do you know? And every now what we're doing, the fourth dive, I'm very fortunate that the tracked unit, we haven't to the teller at Bank of wobble chat, she's on like a a radar. And believe it or not, we can go up there and literally turn it, tell three 16 be great. Hmm. Uh, Jim, my assistant, he goes up the tower when we swing it around and we've got two other locations on the office side of the tower where the ground has dropped away telling a fact you're the shooter and now another 20 feet lower than the base of the tower to now these bugs are going to come over here, 120 feet, hundred and 60 feet. And, and as I always say to the guns, let me get to the last drive. I say to them, this is not about the volume of your shoe. This is about the quality of issues. So it's not about shooting everything. It's about picking your bird. I'm making a great shot. And, and I said, because now what we're shooting is December, January, pheasant in Scotland or Yorkshire, where they've really off pretty high up. And that's how he gives up the day. Um, and we do that, as I said, basically giving me assuming it driven game, if you want to do it properly, it's not just about putting a few traps on a hill and China, you can do that. It's great fun. But that's a more of a story. But what this is about is recreating that, the four seasons in this one guy. And apart from that it's just really great because as I said, once we've done, cause at the time on average we've, we've now say on average people will show 350 college students, uh, or possibly more during the day. Just, just, just depends how quick you can load. Um, and yeah, and we just do it. And then of course, if it's the food as well. Sure.
Speaker 4:So, well not next summer time, you know, I love it. I love everything you've said. Tell me where people can get a, we're listeners can get more information about, certainly about you and what you've got going on. I know you've got some special projects you're working on, but the green acres and, and you know what you know, quick, what part of the country, I know you said you're, you're just south of Chicago. What an hour and a half south of Chicago maybe? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3:yeah. You're smiling. Met Man. Aren't you minutes south of blog called just, um, almost um, uh, just outside of central Chicago. We're in small town pool. Velvets. Um, it's an hour and a half as you say. Staff that she called goes on the interstate. Ayes 57, uh, those, that now that Oh slab, we're about, uh, an hour east of Bloomington. Listen, the other town, uh, th th would know champagne. We're about 45 minutes north of Champagne. Um, we get people coming to, the great thing now is we've got people coming to us from, we had members from, uh, this, uh, no, uh, we've got guys coming down from Alaska. It's brilliant. It's just we've, we've got great following with people finding us easily to get to, uh, as you say, if, um, if you drive the name, we've got pretty much the 55, there's the 57 was pretty easy accessible. It's lovely. It's in what, we had a great couple, Debbie and Bob Barker tell anyone their Valentine's day show and they came down from people that you're doing. I think it was North Michigan. Um, we, we have people driving tourists. It's a seven hour drive or like chapter, those four are dry. Um, so we all ready to Fiji in instance to get to a, and people are, I'll come in, but yet we're in the middle of Illinois. Um, and um, uh, despite it being sort of flat, we can still go pretty high bird and uh, and yeah, come as I say, a couple of little Britain in Illinois.
Speaker 4:Great. How about you? You've got, you've got, you've got a couple of projects, you're working on a book and then I know you're kind of teamed up with the project up team. I know that there they're definitely big in the podcast world and
Speaker 3:yeah, and that and that. True Fat. Uh, I mean, um, I'm gonna send it right. Great. Chapnick Dawson, he was a game. It was one of our members, a really lovely guy, John Dean. And he was listening to the album project I had, I'd seen it and I said, Oh yeah, we'll look at that. Anyway, John comes in and he says, have you heard of it yet? He says, well, I'm going to phone them because they're looking for people. So John Phones. Then nick gets in touch and I do great podcast with Nick. Um, and leading on from that, um, they have, you know, that the optimum project and now doing it online magazine. I did realize though that the, and project his own by the Northwoods collected and dialogue just, they really, oh, so passionate about. What? About hunting and keeping the skills alive and keeping the essence of hunting at night. And they do help. They do a lot of media, 400 cards. The various organizations know. I didn't feel those have big, they were. Anyway, nick, we would change and it's very successful. Then the managing the senior director, Great Chap Group, age range of Rasa. Um, he very kindly spoke to me, me, I don't conversations. And ultimately because of my background, obviously as you know, the last living or the last working living link to the Robert Churchill of course, obviously he wants to do that. And for a long time I've always said to me, Oh, Sydney, over the last 10 years teach when you're doing the book, when done the book? And I said, well, if honest, because as you know, my background is I was mentored by Raj. So, um, I was then took my gun for your skills by Christopher credit, who was Roger's coaching mentor. And then of course kind of spent time with Robert Churchill that, you know, it's that people should, can lead to a lot of book. And I said, well, I know famous. Do you really think I need to write a book because you might opinion, but at least to be said to already been said by better men than me. And, and I don't want to have a gun at anybody, but there's a lot of people out there trying to convince people they invented the wheel when, I'm sorry they didn't, the wheel's already invented and it was invented by these great people, not Robert Churchill. She stayed in Berlin and one of those people out there. Okay. And I said to him, do you really well talk book? And they said, no, no, you've got to do it. Cause if you done to the books of Robert Churchill and Percy Stanbury and Krista credit, uh, are disappearing, they're going, if they're getting lost in the mist of time. I mean, I did, I worked with Roger Sell Crops and he did. He did three coaching videos in the first two I made with logic, budget, shooting, straight shooting, straight competition. Best videos ever, ever made, can't get them. They've gone. No one can get. Um, there are things that Chris told me that Chris Paddock taught me, cause I would, that I would put three years, I went to pitch cutter's house every night for three hours. Roger would drop me here, he'd go shopping with his wife Noreen, and I'd spent three hours with Chris and believe me, he's library was incredible and I was so fortunate. But Chris has told me things that aren't actually now in any books. And some of the love story, the game or you, JD Rasa, nick and the Northwoods collective have been so supportive and they have now confirmed that they will support me in writing and publishing the book. So that's great. I am just, I'm just so lucky to get these breaks in time. And I go back to Roger and Chris and I'll tell people now and I adamantly say, I'm no genius. Never have been on no genius. But tell you what, I was so lucky because I've been taught by genius. These men just was so generous giving me this, that gave me all the information they may be, but most importantly, it boasts of them both Christian. I just said, now you must be clones of us. You've got to do your own thing and you've got to develop what? Well, you know, we've given you and the game or just been hugely fortunate and now I come to America, great place to loving it. We've just got, it's just pretty, it's telling somebody. And then what comes in on Nick, oh gender restaurant and someone says, you actually want to help you publish your book though. I'm on really fun. And you know, you know, meeting someone like yourself. I know we haven't met in a fish yet, but you know, being in touch with[inaudible] and there's use that your, sorry, got to get this to keep it going. As I said, if, if, if it wasn't for people like you and nick, um, that enabled may be a me too book cost. Um, those things that the other main give me, it moved on. So in actual fact, you know, thank you very much. Ooh, you guys do. And I would not say to all your listeners checks, you're really lucky here because you've got this great country, you've got the ability to go out and hunt and shoot. Um, and you know, we, we were with pheasants, you know, with President Fest, Brilliant Organization, ducks on them. They're so lucky because trust me, other people don't have any of this so fixable in it,
Speaker 4:but it gets a perfect way to end. And I want to thank you especially in, and I want to congratulate you on all the things that you've, that you've done and all the things that you've got going. We'll certainly be on the lookout for the book and um, and we'll go from there. Okay. Keith coil. I appreciate it. Thanks for being a guest today.
Speaker 3:Thank you Roland. Um, design, it's sort of been on and uh, I'm going to go and finish me better now.
Speaker 4:Gee, thanks.
Speaker 3:Oh, I might see everyone. Bye.
Speaker 4:Hey, I want to thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. This is really nothing more than a hobby for me. Born from my interest in double barrel shotguns. If you have a suggestion or a tip or a question I'd love to hear from you, email me@abreakintheactionatgmail.com. Oh, and if you found this podcast, interesting, please subscribe. It helps me and we'll encourage this podcast to grow.
